David Duncan Oral History

Title: David Duncan Oral History
Subject: David Duncan's personal history; the history of his involvement with the Greer Heritage Museum.
Description: David Vincent Duncan the second is interviewed by Joanna Huttar at the Greer Heritage Museum on April 13, 2024.
interviewer: Joanna Huttar
interviewee: David Vincent Duncan II
Creator: Joanna Huttar
Contributor: David Vincent Duncan II
Publisher: Greer Heritage Museum
Location: Greer Heritage Museum
Source: gestures and visuals from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to966Fybq0g
text from an audio recording held by Joanna Huttar. That is why the transcription starts after the beginning of the video.
Date: April 13, 2024
Format: youtube video
Rights: Rights have been signed over to the Greer Heritage Museum of Greer, SC.
Relation: David Duncan Oral History
Type: Oral History
Original Format: Video on youtube. There is also an audio recording, held by Joanna Huttar.
Transcription: David Duncan: …could all expect to live past one hundred.
Joanna Huttar: Really?
David Duncan: ____ if you take care of yourself, um, I think.
Huttar: I hope so. Okay. Do you have any more questions before we start?
Duncan: [laughs] No, I’m fine, I’m just interested because I’m not around a lot of young people, y’know, all the time, your experiences are so different from mine, so it’s just interesting.
Huttar: So I want to hear about yours. And sometimes, like you were talking about with Mr. Lovegrove, I don’t know very much so I don’t even know what questions to ask, so…
Duncan: We’ll work through it.
Huttar: if you just come up with whatever seems interesting. Okay, so I’m going to introduce the interview, so it’s at the beginning. Today is April 13, 2024, and this is Joanna Huttar, I am interviewing Mr.David Duncan in the Greer Heritage Museum of Greer, South Carolina. Mr. Duncan is the head of the Museum Board of Directors [note: actually, Mr. Duncan had retired from the board about one and a half years earlier] and he and his family also have a significant role in Greer’s History. Okay, when and where were you born?
Duncan: Well, I was actually – my parents were living in Greer at the time. My father – and I’m giving you some background so you will get a picture of what things were like – my dad grew up here, not exactly right in the center of town, but he grew up in the area and his grandparents actually lived - I don’t know where the city limits was at the time, but he was either right at the city limits on several, you know, acreage, right outside of the city. And so he was a Greer person because he grew up here. My mother was a North Carolinian. And she was born in eastern North Carolina in a very, very small place called MacFarlan, which was between Cheraw South Carolina and Wadesboro, NC, close to the state line. But she was a North Carolinian. And I won't go into how they met, but anyway, they're married 1937. They tried having children immediately because they fell in love, first sight thing. I won’t give you that story because it's very interesting. All because of a Methodist minister, because both families were Methodist for at least five generations. So anyway, I finally came along in ‘47. So there was no hospital here. So the doctors in Greer had a choice to use Greenville General, at the time, or Spartanburg General And my doctor which was R.C. Alverson - and his picture, it used to be on the wall back in the medical room - just thought he just liked Spartanburg at the time better. So that was born in Spartanburg Hospital. And as soon as we move from there, [laughs] which is couple of days or whatever, I've been in Greer ever since, other than the time I spent it Wofford college, which was four years, Wofford in Spartanburg, so. So this is where I was born and I've been here ever since.
Huttar: Cool. How far back has your family been in Greer?
Duncan: [pauses to think] Well, it was before Greer existed. The family had been here a long time in the U - in what became the US. Immigrated to this part of the country and we think it was before the mid 1700s. They've been in this country longer than that, but we think that was what could – Duncan, South Carolina, which is on the way to Spartanburg, is named after my - a family member started it and, you know, my great-great-uncle. And my great-great-grandfather, you know, brothers, and they were instrumental in the railroad was coming through so. Which is - you've heard the story about Greer, you know, it's railroad came through and got to be – well, he wanted to develop some of the property around there, So I think he convinced railroads into putting like Duncan station and this became Greer station because it's a huge farming area. And it wasn’t like anything close to what it is now, okay? So when the railroad came through, you couldn't - the main thing was to get products here and away from here. You know, like farmer sent stuff and then they got fertilizer and everything else. It was the main - this was the Interstate, more or less, back then, you understand. This was the main way to do things - so you couldn't have one station in Spartanburg and one maybe in Greenville, cause these people couldn't get to it, so every so often they a stop or a station. So there was one in Spartanburg, there was one called Duncan station, one Greer station. They had one in Taylors and then one in Greenville. So that's the way – and then these towns grew up around the railroad station, so. So that's how long we've been - I have not - That was - Let's put it this way. My great-great-great-great grandfather is buried in Duncan. In the Cemetery next to the Baptist Church. But at the time, it was not the Baptist Church. It was the Methodist Church, which burned. So they sold the area for some reas - Don't ask me – there’s a book here, Duncan, and I don't know why, but the Baptists got, took care of the property and the Methodists went and built a church somewhere else. So the graveyard is the graveyard, but it's not like the Baptists’ graveyard, [laughs] so.
None of that makes a difference; I'm just telling you that that's where the families of my grandparents are. My parents are in Mountain View Cemetery Greer, which is a quite pretty cemetery to be what a cemetery is. And then my grandparents are buried there and my great grandparents are buried there. Great-great grandparent who was a Confederate veteran is buried, you know, in a Methodist Church. Kind of north of Appalach. Zoar Methodist Church. It’s got a cemetery across the street and he's got a, you know, Confederate monument thing, which is old now. And then his daddy - and his grandaddy is buried in Duncan. So that gives you an idea.
Huttar: Can you tell me the names of some of your forefathers in Greer?
Duncan: Well, my dad's name was my name, except without “the second” on the end - Daddy did not like the word “Junior”. Plus my - his grandfather's first name was David, so Daddy's name was David Vincent Duncan, period. Mine is David Vincent Duncan the second. So my dad was David V. Duncan. Um, his dad was Earl Dixon Duncan and his dad was Berry Duncan who was a confederate. And his Dad was Samuel. I'm losing it when I could get to the next one. I’ll think of it after a while, so.
Huttar: Let me know if you do. Do you know of a J. Duncan that goes with Berry Duncan? Maybe the same time period?
Duncan: Give me the name. I mean, the -
Huttar: I don't know it. I just know that it maybe starts with a J. Just wondering if you knew.
Duncan: James would be my great grandparent, James David. But I don’t know, that would have been, in the late 1800s from like 1850 to after 1900, so that would have been his name, I don’t know this- a number of - I'm finding - We never did try to trace family or anything. You know, we had a - on my grandmother Duncan’s side, my paternal grandmother - her first cousin was a registered genealogist. And so he did a lot of that family and he was starting to work on the Duncans. And of course he was older and then he died, so that ended that. So, you know, I don't have one – Hmm, J. Duncan. It was James Duncan that would have been fairly recent. I mean he might be dead now but he would have been, you know, a generation behind me.
Huttar: So we know about a Berry and J. Duncan, who bought one of the very first plots of land in Greer after the station started having trains in 1874, so just wondering if you knew who that was?
Duncan: I didn't even know that. It may have been the plot - was it in Greer?
Huttar: I believe so.
Duncan: Okay, well, I'll have to ask. The J. is not ringing a bell, but I do know that we had some - now it will be first cousin four times removed, but the J. Duncan that I'm talking about would be my great-grandfather. Also, there was J. Duncan, that might be J. Duncan because - she was my grandfather's wife - and she was pretty -- forward. [laughs] I mean, she did not suffer fools, let's put it that way. And I think she was the reason some of the property was bought so, and her name was Jane. And there's a lot of women would sign initials like the textile mill down at Pelham - that was a lady but she went by her initials which they automatically would think it was a man so she didn't have problems - until somebody met her, I guess. But that’s unfortunate, but you remember at that time, you know, women owned, man controlled, period. That was just the way it was, so.
Huttar: Interesting.
Duncan: [laughs] You looked shocked when I told you that. Like the founder of Wofford college - the wealth came from his wife's side of the family, but he controlled it. And probably did real well with it – so she benefited on account of it, but anyway, that's the way it was.
Huttar: Also, do you have any siblings?
Duncan: No. I’m an only child. Mother and daddy desperately wanted children. And I'm not going to get too deep and personal because I know it would bore you, but they tried and never could conceive, and long story short, they finally decided, well, Miss Duncan we’ve done x-rays; your uterus is like a little over to one side, you know, so she had an operation and straightened that out and then they went awhile and didn't have children. And then they decided, well, we'll just have to adopt. And this is the sad part. So they were ready to adopt, I think that one had been - it was called the Children's Bureau back then - they didn't have the, you know, South Carolina - whatever department it is in now - Social Services - that was not there then, so they had the Children’s Bureas, and that was the place that, you know, you absolutely cannot find out who your parents were. I mean they just, you know, here you were and that was it. And they were about ready. And mother felt kind of sickish, getting a weird feeling and she went to Doctor Alverson, who delivered me, and he said I think you're pregnant. And if you and Vince – he called him, that's kind of a nickname he had - might better hold off on adopting. So. Just the story was, she was pregnant and it was me, and I've told you the rest of the story, and they said, oh goodie, you know, now we can have more children. So when they built the house that I'm living in now in ‘49, I was two and a half when we moved there. I think they kind of finished the upstairs like two more bedrooms, thinking they might have more children, but it didn't happen. So. I guess it's God's will. But I felt sorry for the person that didn't get adopted. I have no idea who it was and neither do they - because mother and daddy were really good parents. And I'm doing that objectively, now that I'm older, I can see how some other people grow up and hear stories that they didn't tell when you were in high school. You know, about what so and so, and daddy was drinking, drinking and blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, not so with my family. I mean, we were – they were not terribly strict, but they were - we just had an understanding that this is what our family does, you know? There was no alcohol in my house and it wasn't a big religious thing, but it just was a non-subject, you know, and when you were supposed to speak to people, “Yes, ma'am, no, ma'am” – the whole good manners thing. So anyway, I'm an only child. And I was overprotected. And because I was - they were older and they could see how I was their only child. And being older meant, they got out of the 20s where they're “me, me, me.” And they were a settled couple and they've been married 10 years. So I was super fortunate. I mean, God had really been good to me for - and my parents were good to me and even though they've not been here they're still being good to me. So anyway. That encapsulates something. So where do you – [interviewer speaks at the same time] [laughs] Okay.
Huttar: Has Church been an important part of your life growing up?
Duncan: Uh-huh, big time. Not so much in the last few years, but, grew up in the church, Methodist right down the street [points behind him], but United Methodist Church. Daddy was a trustee and on the board - cause some of them have changed the name, some of these things - I think his name’s in the cornerstone for the new building. It was an older church there that I remember growing up in, which has pictures of it somewhere in here. And so it was an older church, but they were wanting to remodel it and the people said absolutely it's not gonna work. So it tore down and we met like at the Greer theatre which has also been torn down. But while they were building the church - I mean now so I remember the old church, I remember Sunday school - every summer after school closed we went to Vacation Bible School and did fun things, and I remember something – [half sings] “The B-I-B-L-E, the B-I-B-L-E, I stand my foot on the word of God, the B-I-B-L-E” [laughs] - I can remember the lady - even know her- that taught us that. Been dead a long, long time, but. So yes, but that was a, you know, Wofford is a Methodist school. Started by a Methodist minister who happened to be wealthy. Because he married a [laughs] lady that I told you about a while ago, so. And part of that wealth was people, [nods seriously] so. That’s that.
Huttar: So you went to Methodist school? That’s what you said?
Duncan: Yeah, but it was it was Methodist because it was started by Methodist person and the Methodist Conference in South Carolina gives it a little bit of money. I mean nothing - But it's, it's connected - it's not a Methodist school meaning that you have to do everything Methodist. It was founded by a Methodist and now it's kind of going away from - the same deal as Furman, somewhat, except not near as drastic. ‘Cause Furman had, you know, the Baptists and they were more or less kind of running the board. And people said, you know, they were beginning to get highly conservative - politically, and in every other way, so. The Furman board with a lot of top Greenville people decided, you know, our donations are going down. People are not liking the way this is going. So they disassociated from the Baptist church and - that didn't happen at Wofford, it’s just kind of been a gradual thing. But it’s a wonderful liberal arts college. Let me tell you, I have enjoyed it, I have benefited from that education more than you know. We were required to take two semesters of religion. But it wasn't proselytizing, it was – “here's the Bible.” Old testament – “here’s the Bible,” and new testament – “here's the history.” And they didn't push you to believe or not believe or anything else. You just made up your mind. And “here's the history,” you know, in the Bible, which is probably a little different than they would do it at Bob Jones. But that's just the way it was. So I did grow up in the church.
Huttar: What did you study at Wofford College?
Duncan: Pre-med. And it was good. but we were required to take - we had to have philosophy. We had to have two semesters of Western civilization. If you didn't have that one course, you could have a four-O [4.0 GPA] and everything, but if you did not pass that course, you did not get a diploma, so you had to have it. That has been one of the most helpful courses I have ever had in my life, and most of it despised it when we were having it. Because this man, the professor, Ross Bayard, was his name - still living, by the way. I think he looked [looks?] way up in his 80s, but he was much younger then of course, and you can imagine he was a ball of fire but a fantastic professor. And he had all of us whether we wanted to or not to subscribe to a newspaper - delivered at our door and we would look at that newspaper - and occasionally he would have a pop quiz on that day's paper. How would you like to be sitting at 8 - it's an 8:30 class by the way, you know [laughs]. So. But I remember so much, because when I would later have trips to Europe, I would say, “Oh yeah, this is, this is Vienna, this is where the congress [commerce?] of Vienna was. And this is where they invented something called mit schlag, which is whipped cream, and just everything I know. And then also we didn't have to, but I elected to take an art course under Constance Armitage, whose husband was way up in the military situation and she - they were apparently very well off. And she was not only an art cretic, but she knew sword fighting, she was head of the Republican Party back then, which wasn't that big; she was just a fantastically educated world-wide person and when and having that art course - and music that I – I didn’t tell you music appreciation and the history course just made travel, especially in Europe and in Egypt and places like that, just totally come alive. It wouldn't have if I'd never traveled; I just said, well God, I'm glad I took that course because I - somebody would say, “what is that old someth-” “Oh, yeah that's from so and so back in when they were doing this in Rome - or something,” they say, “how do you know all that?” Well go to Wofford [laughs].
Huttar: What did you say was the name of your philosophy teacher?
Duncan: I don’t -I’m trying to think. It was a - It was not the president, but it was a - a rule. The president of the college had to teach one class of philosophy. He would like, you went once a week to that class, or twice a week, whichever it was. I think it was, you know, twice a week for a semester that he had. He had to teach that. But I had another person and I cannot think of that professor's name. I'm sorry, I can picture him in my mind. So and also I remember a person that went to high school with me whose family owned Peach Orchard - they were fairly well off - and he was lazy, nothing person, married another classmate of mine who’s still living. And I remember he came in and I said “when did he start going to Wofford?” He was - he was an alcoholic by that time, believe it or not. So he came in late, found an empty desk, and just did this with his books [makes a motion like carelessly dropping something] and they just fell down on the floor. He just went [leans on table with both arms]. Well, we didn't see him anymore [laughs, shrugs]. So. That's that. But it was him. Good course, really. I mean, all these things they made you take, you didn't want to. But then the things you wanted to do - it was - they made it - it was good. I swear to goodness I can’t th - I could go back in my annual, probably find his name. But you’ve got to understand, it’s been like fifty-five years, something like that? So.
Huttar: Is there - I'm sure there is. What are your ancestors in Greer famous for? Or what did they do?
Duncan: My great-grandparents were – other than owning property and doing some rental stuff - were mostly farming people or owned farms and selling products from that. That would have been one of the main things to do before the turn of the century. My grandfather Duncan had a business here, and he was like a everything. I mean, he traded, - he got in the car business early. The automobile is early [?] - I’m talking about early early. But he was one that would like trade a car for piece of property or did a whole bunch of other stuff for a farm. And then would sell that and do something else. So he was like real estate, maybe money landing, car business in and out. Maybe he would get an agency and it would do fairly well and then he would sell it and then he would do something else. So he was a trader and- I don’t know what else he did an the side. He was a absolute product of the 18th century or 19th century? – of the 1800s, his attitudes and the way he was, you know, the woman takes - my grandmother takes care of the family and the house and all of that and he was always dressed - I was told by some people behind me that remembered him - they said that he would be - downtown before the street was paved, and they had some like boarded things that you could walk on, like little walkways, and he would be doing horse trading, which he did, and that he would make people bring the horse to him - because he was always dressed, he was polished suit and hat, you know, everything - and look at it so he wouldn't get messed up and so. And he was considered at that time fairly well off. I don't know what that means. I mean, but the Davenport family, which you may have heard - I don't know, this house down near the Davenport family was here and my granddad was here and the Dobson family got to be fairly well off with lots of property and the big Peach business and cattle and having a banker career, so. That's kind of like the three Ds: Dobson, Davenport and Duncan and then my grandfather - one of the Davenports - Mr. Thompson had the Ford place - it wasn’t a place, but his business got the Ford dealership. He was doing quite well; actually got another one over in Greenville. And in the depression he had - And he had signed recourse papers. When you - I don't know that you own a car. But if you did, sometimes you borrow money - the bank, you know, loans you - and you sign – the bank signs a non-recourse meaning that if you [raspberry] they get the money or whatever, or they don't. But back then it was recourse, meaning that if the person fails to pay, you gotta come up with the money that's owed. So, when the depression hit and people couldn't pay for their cars, long story short, Mr. Thompson went broke. And so, shortening this down again, my grandfather went up the street. I think he told, Grandmother, said “I think I'm gonna go buy the Ford place,” maybe. So he went, and on his way up to wherever he was - this way [motions to his left, towards the front of the Museum] – downtown - on the way, he met Malcolm Davenport, which is the oldest of the Davenport children that were closer to his age, actually his brothers and sisters, more my dad at age, but he was a little bit older. And he said, “Earl, where you going?” He said, “I'm going up to buy the Ford Place.” He looked at him and they talked. Well then he said, “do you need a partner?” He said, “well do you want to go in with me?” So they went together and he went back home after all this happened. Mother and daddy had just married; it was 1937 and they were on the front porch of the Duncan home place and he came up when grandmother asked him, said “yeah we bought it. But sitting here - either one we can't name it Thompson Ford because, you know, you don’t want to name it after somebody going broke,” said, “we don't want, we don't know kind of what to name it.” And mother said, “why don't y'all name it D&D, you know, Duncan and Davenport.” He said, “well, that might work.” So there it is, D&D Ford. Now he died. In 1940, he had - 46 years old – it was a brain thing, don't, you know, whatever it was, I think it was some kind of tumor, and then he had a cerebral hemorrhage and that that was the end of that. So he did not live long enough to see all that come to fruition, but. So that's what he did.
And then my dad, as a young man he kind of started his own business, and he was basically in the car business his entire life, one way or another. He had the Chrysler Plymouth agency here for years. Then Chrysler Corporation decided to, you know, “you don't need the two best sellers, so either you got Chrysler Dodge or Plymouth Dodge, so he went to Chrysler-Plymouth dealership, which he had. And then my dad had a severe heart attack and -when he was 47- almost didn't make it, but he did, thank goodness. He lived a good bit longer. And it's the business now that Benson owns. Benson Chrysler Plymouth out on the highway here, when you go back and forth, you see both sides of the highway. And he did real well because he bought it as a very young man, 24-25 years old and, you know, he was not formally educated, but he sure had a good business mind. So he did real well. I like him. He was very nice to my mother and daddy. So anyway, so that's what we've done for a number of generation- When you get back further than that, I just think we were - one of my friends was looking up so say Yeoman [tries to pronounce] farmers - Yeoman farmers, I think is what you call them, whatever that means. You're not destitute and you're not enormously wealthy, but you have property and you’re sustaining yourself, so. That's probably what they did for years, I suppose, so.
Huttar: So what jobs have you have had?
Duncan: Well, the medical school thing fell through and I don't know why. I just - when I got out of Wofford I said I'm tired of school - you have one of these spells that young people go through - and I said I’ll go, later. So, by hook or crook, I think mother found - she was teaching. She started teaching and I won't go into that. That's a whole ‘nother whirl. But she didn't work, she worked and then she didn't work, and then they were short on teachers in ‘57 and they begged her - district Superintendent here just, you know, please, God, we gotta have someone – so she went to Pelham School and was teacher principal. She was head of the school and she taught 6th grade and did that for 15 years or more. And somebody came in to inspect the lunchroom and they said, oh, they're hiring at the health department. So, believe it or not, in ‘69 I was hired by the state board of health, at the time, which several years later became DHEC, the Department of Health and Environmental Control, which I understand now is being split, but it would have to be pretty big state agency, so I worked there for 38 years. But in the meantime, you know, I didn't particularly like bureaucracy too much, and but I did do well enough that every now and then I'd get raises because I think I would do what others wouldn’t. You know, people get to be b- they just kind of sit there, “Well this is not my job, it's not my job, well I never did ask that, I just did it. So that moved along fairly well, but not nearly as well as being a doctor. But I've also got involved. I ran and won the election for. Greer commissioner of public works which is the public utility system here and I was, as of right now, I’m the youngest person that held an elected position in this town, ‘cause I think I was 26. So that was interesting, and people seemed to like me, I guess, because I stayed there about 36 years and was chairman a big part of that time. Because when I went there, the two men, it was 3 -, 3 commissioners, they were probably about my age now [laughs]. Or maybe even younger and they were, you know, I was the age of their children. So that was - that was not really hard because they were, they were pretty nice, but they had, they had ideas that were - you know, but they passed away and other people came on and we just had a real good Commission board there. Not because of me, but the three of us just fit like a glove and [there was] a lot of growth. And then BMW came and thank God we were there because - the growth here; city doesn't grow unless the utilities can grow. City grows where the Commission says it can. That's, that's a rough statement. But it's just true. Pipe sewer is power. If you know what I mean. If you can't have sewer, you can’t have a subdivision, so, that’s that. So I did that, and then later on I was asked to be a bank director at the original Bank of Greer, which I became, and then bank of Greer was bought out by United Carolina Bank. Still a director on up into the late 90s. And then it was bought by BB&T. We couldn't be a director then because of the board would have had to have been, you know, fifteen hundred people, you know, with all the mergers they did. So I served on kind of a local board that they call it, just kind of cheerleading thing. And then when the recession came, they did - all banks did away with all boards because they paid you little something. Well, they just say it's a waste of money because all these people are not real directors. They just, they're being cheerleaders. So anyway, so I did those things and then I did some other stuff. I was on the Greenville Theater - a little theater is what it used to be - Board. I was on the Symphony Board. I was going in and served as president, and I can keep going. But, um. A lot of things.
Huttar: Going back to the Commissioner of Public Works, did you help create the reservoir?
Duncan: Yeah. One of them, the Clay Cunningham was there in ’57- ‘58 time-frame, for the one that you go up 14 and the Steakhouse is over here [motions to the right], and you see the dam [motions to the left]. I don't know whether you've been that way or not. Anyway, that was the oldest one. But the second one, Lake Cunningham, I mean, Lake Robinson. The only thing that had been done was plans had been made to do it. And a bond issue, I think 1.2 million, had been issued. And I got on the board because Verne Smith, which was Senator Verne Smith later, which you have no clue who it is, but he was one of the people, period, for a long period of time. But that’s that first person we had a senator from here that got up to real power in the Senate. So he ran for that office, and it opened up a place, and I won that election and it was actually a in-between election, and then I ran for office full-time the next time, so. So it's a six-year office and so we I had to sit through – we negotiated for the property. That was more fun than you can imagine [laughs], both good and bad. You know, people didn't want to give up their farms. But believe it or not, we managed that in a way that we did not - we had to threaten it - but we did not have to do a condemnation. You know, like, condemn property. But you have to have a reason, you know, has to be for a public thing, according to the federal constitution and the state Const- you can't go and just take somebody's property like Russia would do, or China, you know, “get out” and then, you know, you have to go through the process. So we went through a process, but everybody had sense enough to see, you know, that here was a S Tiger River [draws a line on the table to his left]. And here’s the route 101 [?] over here [draws a line on the table to his right] and here's like Maze Bridge Road [?] [to the left of the river] and here and the farms were this way [indicates several sections between the river and route 101]. We were taking the back sides of them [divides out a section in the middle] and people, it kind of dawned on them - and plus the real estate dealers - you know your property value on that back side of your farm is gonna go way up, because it's gonna be waterfront property. So we negotiated, so I was involved in negotiating the property, the site of the dam in the lake, financing the rest of it - it took a lot of politics stuff, you know, because we got the Soil Conservation Service said “you'll never get that done.” Well, we did and most of it with the help of Strong Thurman, who you probably don't know who it was, but he was a [phone starts ringing] famous senator from South Carolina on the national senator. [referring to the phone] that they’re gonna answer it. That's got a - that just radios into here or something. I’m sure David or somebody will answer. Are they here? You know, somebody here looking after museum? [interviewer nods] Okay. So he died like at 100 years old but he was senator for - well, he was one of the longest service - 40, nearly 50 years. They - not controversial to us, but controversial. You know, he was involved in the surrogation movement and all that. It just, I won't get into all that. But, anyway, he helped to see it - I went to see him several times and blah blah blah. So, anyway, then we did a lot of money that - since we were not using that bond issue, we had it invested because it took a while for it to finally get, you know, done. So actually we dedicated like I think in 1988. Which is filmed, I’ve got a film at home with the dedication. So anyway, that's that. So yes, from beginning to end I was involved in that, and a bunch of other problems, water tanks, upgrading the water tank, whole bunch of stuff on the sewer end. So yeah, very much involved.
Huttar: How did you get involved with the Greer Heritage Museum after that?
Duncan: Oh, how did I get involved? That lady up there [points at framed newspaper article on the wall], Carm Hudson, Carmenina Hudson [Carmela Hudson], who was not born here but was of Italian descent. I gather with this [?] 3rd, 4th generation, but she was – I think in New Jersey, and she was a very persistent person. Her husband, Earl, was a great billion [?] and he was not as persistent but a very hard worker and nice people. They were members of our church. They moved here in the early 50s, like ‘50-‘51. Some of this – ‘51 or ‘52. It'd be hard for me to remember, but she's - it's probably up there. That article you can read and probably find that all you need to know about it, so it won't take up a lot of your time, but Mother came to me one day and said - she was reading the Greer Citizen. It always came, it came out on Wednesday, but it came in the mail on Thursday, you know, they, everybody grabs it and starts looking at. Now, nobody - I don't even take it anymore because it's not owned by the Burch family. And so it's just, you know, who are these people? What are they talking about? The only thing interesting would be like if they’re going to build another building in Greer, you know, whatever. - But she said, “Carm has decided that Greer needs a museum. We never even thought about it; I don't know of anybody in Greer that thought about but her, but they just loved Greer, after they moved here, and they said this town had been very nice to them. So. I don't - they just had the bright idea to - and she was persistent as I said and really – she was like a locomotive when she got started. So she decided to start one and she put it all together, board of directors, whatever. But after it was started and it was in a building downtown that she rented, it was like part of the department store. And it was no longer used, so they rented it for a reasonable price. And then she just put out a notice for people to have something to donate to the museum, you know, and she would talk them out of it. And so that's how it started. Well, after about a couple of years, she started on me to be a board member. And, you know, I didn't exactly maybe wanna do it, but persistence, I said okay, so I became a board member and stayed there until just, you know, a year or two ago, or a year ago or whatever it was. So. We moved -and Carm stayed with us- we moved across the street because that building was gonna be rented for more and another building over here was empty. So that was move number one. And then when Carm got retirement age and she knew that she was getting ready to - that she needed to retire.
That's when Miss Hiatt, Joada Hiatt, which you've seen around here somewhere, like on the front there, where the, you know, the dedication of the museum and stuff are there, it says Joada Hiatt, Director. She was, you know, trained in library science and she had a long tenure with the library system and was a nice person, also very interested in Greer and liked Greer and for a while was a member of my church. She came to a board meeting and she was retiring and she looked reluctant and then she looked happy and then she said “I think I'll take the job.” So kind of Carm moves this way and Joada moved in. And this is the important part. And I'm, I'm telling you, I was with - all this time I was with the museum. Carm was persistent and so she went to the City Hall when there was little rumblings that - the City Hall was in this building - That they just couldn't - I mean, they were bursting at the seams. Downstairs looked like a maze. This little building you know the codes was down there [?], part of the Police Department was down there, public works was down there, and then up here was mayor and council and city clerk and blah, blah, blah, and it was just all cut up. And they said, you know, “we're gonna burst out of this place if we don't get a” – so it was rumored [?] that they were going to get a new City Hall. So, she went to council and with her persistence and pressure, they agreed that if we ever move out of that building you all can lease it. And that got put in the minutes and proved it.
Okay, well, the new City Hall came out a lot faster than we thought. BMW came, Greer began to grow, tax, you know, base went up and -. So this City Hall, this now down here and - this [gestures behind him] building directly behind us was built first. All that was a big like $21 million - at that time - project and it just happened quicker than we thought and she, you know, had already forced the issue. So long story short, we got the lease on this building. Which I don't think the then city manager liked, but it happened anyway. So he never - he never was too accommodating to us but anyway she got it, we got it. Then Joada kind of - she's the one who did this move, period. I mean she's the one who figured it out, what room to put what in, how to do this, how to do that. She did a beautiful job because she was an organ- you know she [Carm] was a founder and a pusher and got everything started, you know, and she was a organizer and had visions of what she wanted this to look like and I helped her and then I helped with the move. We took a whole day and Smith Dray Line from Greenville came over here and they were, they were really good. It's an old moving company that’s been in business for many years, the Turrentines owned it. And Mr. Turrentine actually came up here, or his son, he had died but the sons were very interested in it. They did this and I'm sure at a much reduced price, but it took all day long. It was a real job. Well, we cleaned that building out and got it all in here and Joada did, you know, put in stuff, so we - some of us helped, some of us didn't, but I know I did. So that's the way it looked when David Lovegrove first came here so Joada did that. So I was, went through all that, and Joada decided to retire and I said “Oh my God!” - because I had been elected chairman. Actually it was called president of the board. I hope they've changed it to chairman because that's just, you know, it doesn't sound right, you know, because usually the president is of a company, and then there’s a board and the board chairman, so anyway. I mean, just time I got on the board, it wasn't, hadn't been long - we had a board meeting and she, you know, went through the whole thing, you know, like the directors report and financial business, blah, blah, and we got to the new business, if you know how meetings run, and so she said, “Yeah, and, but this coming April,” and this was something like maybe November, “that I'm going to retire.” I'm not gonna say what I said, but it was not nice, not - in my mind, I didn't say it out loud. So she did. And I said, “Okay, we're gonna have to have 2 committees here. One is going to, let's do something nice for Joada because she's been really good, and then let's get another director.” The first committee did pretty good. The second one - I might as well have just gone outside in the wind that we had the other day and go whff [blows]. That's about how much we got done [laughs]. So they couldn't figure - nobody would take it, nobody on the board or anything. And they just said, “Uh, look, David, this is just very, very, very short time, but if you could just take over as interim and we can - we'll get somebody.” Well, the “get somebody” just dissolved. Don't know where it went and I was stuck here. And I tried, and I did kind of, I think - David says, you know, I saved the museum because I actually put personal money when, you know, I bought things, didn't say anything about it, donated money, did that. And we did keep it in pretty good shape, but it wasn't going to progress. Because I'm not trained in computer, and how to get on the Internet. Now I could probably do it a little better, but at that time I just didn't know the things he knew and that his son knows. Because he came in here at thirteen, and he could take that camera there [points at recording camera] and he had a stick and he was doing this [moves hands above head as if pointing a camera on a selfie stick at various things] and doing, you know, like tiktok things and - you know, you've seen his work and so.
When that came about, I said, you know, this is a real good opportunity and I didn't just ask them directly, there was another lady involved, Nannette Iatesta, but you probably have - have you heard of her? [interviewer nods] Have you met her? [interviewer shakes her head] okay, well, she came to visit. And this was about - several years ago. She came to visit, she said- well and I said, “oh,” I said, “this is a talkative, nice lady.” And then she really had - you know how Nannette just does like this [hands like mouths quickly talking] and it just, you know, very - you would love talking with her, more than me, so. She said, “I know that when you move to a place” and they were living over in Taylors - I said okay, that’s alright. And, you know, we talked a while she said it turned out we were in one of the main – the old houses and so on, and I won’t go into that. But I knew where she had moved to and I said, “well, why did they move there?” But anyway, that's fine, and she said the best way to learn about a place is to go to a museum. And then she told me she’d been the head up a museum or on a museum board out in Colorado where they grew up and instead of being textiles like what we had here, you know, making cloth, they had mining. But she said everything else is exactly similar: the board’s not active. They don't know what to do. You know we're not making so and so – well, anyway, she started saying, “I'm gonna do a little,” she said, “tiktoks” or whatever they’re called about Greer and the museum and see if she could get a response back and one day she got a response that said “who are you?” [laughs] And it was Jonathan Lovegrove, who was 13 at the time. And she did this, and they met. So they met, and, yeah, they got really interested in what to do in the museum [makes texting motions]. Then one day I was here and just this 13-year-old walked in. He said “hi I'm Jonathan Lovegrove, blah, blah, blah.” And he was just – talk about precocious – I don’t know whether he’s that way now, I think he’s calmed down a little – I mean, it wasn’t ugly, just most children are coming and drop their head down, you know, why am I here and kind of go mope around with their parents and not interested in it at all. He was just violently interested in it. And I said, “how nice.” He said, “I think I'm gonna tell my daddy about it.” I said, “well this is gonna go over real big.” Well boy, it did - in the opposite direction. About two days later, David came up here with him. He walked in that door [points at front door of Museum], and he looked towards the back, and he just went nuts. I'm serious. He said, “I see so much opportunity,” you know, just looking at him. Now Nannette had already told me that they had to get a person, that they hired, to come to their museum in Colorado and tell them what they needed to do - make a whole report. David went home, and in 24-48 hours he had a total plan that he emailed to us - of what to do. She said, “David,” and I said “how much is it?” and she said “no, he's doing for free.” She said, “this is $30,000 free – is what we had to pay to do that.” Now, what do you think I thought? I said, “If I can grab this guy” – don’t want to tell him that - but I said “I want to do whatever I can to-” I said, “this is my opening. With Nanette, and these people, if I can keep them interesting, at least will tell me what I need to do. Well, the rest is history, you know. I mean they just, they came up with a plan, and then we had a board meeting, and I introduced him. You know, the board naturally was, you know, blown away because they had been just sitting there, no clue what to do anything. And I don't think they even really wanted to be on the board. It was, it was a depressing time because I couldn't get people that grew up here interested in the museum. They just thought, “why do you even have one?” And the blacks say, you know, “we need our own. We don't need that.” Well they're an integral part of our history. So it was kind of, kind of - and I had a lot of more help at first because the people were older than me. And they all knew stuff and they had things and they kind of would go with this. They started dying off. Nobody replaced them. Because their kids were either away from here, or are not interested, or whatever, so anyway. I don't need to tell you the rest of it. David got highly interested and then we finally got him on the board, and I said, well, Jonathan will do this 2, 3 years and he'll get in the mid-teens. Then he’ll get girly and all this kind of stuff you know and that won't go over- well, that didn't happen. He’s still interested. And his dad’s still interested, and his mother’s still interested and Nanette is still interested and so it's just move right along. And he started rearranging things and making the post office up here rather than back there [moving gesture toward the front of the museum, points at back]. And I said that’s actually a good idea. Because I remember coming here when it was a post office. Because I remember coming here when it was a post office. You know, I’d come in here and bring mail from from daddy either, or from - and I even know where the post boxes was, and I remember a painting but I don't remember what it was ‘till we uncovered it after we got the building. So, anyway it was interesting to me, so.
So that's what happened, and I was on the board till whenever I got off – was it a year and a half ago? or whatever. Because I kept saying I need to - I need to move on. I've been on 25 years. I've been chairman. I've been this interim director. And I'm at the limit of my – you know, I’m old, I’m getting old, and you just - you just don't want to be bothered with stuff. Because I had lots of little things to do and each one of them was starting to bother me. You know, I was treasurer of this and something of that. And then we're getting calls at night that the alarm’s going off and we had to get it fixed and it was, you know, like 1:00 and 2:00 in the morning. And I said I want to get off. Well, that - it still rocked on [?] and nothing happened. So finally, one meeting, the last one I had, I said – and, you know, “under new business I'm leaving.” One of the boards said, “oh, we've heard that before.” And I had the key and the credit card. And I put it on the table [puts imaginary key and credit card on the table, slides them away from him] and said, “here is the key and the credit card, and this is my last meeting and I am through.” [laughs] That’s the only way I could do it. So that's what I did, and then I've stayed out of David's way. Just nothing’s worse than having somebody that used to run something, “well why are you doing this? I don't, I don't think you're -” Just shut up and let him run it, so. So here I am, having an interview with you, and that's how I was involved. So I was deeply involved and I have given - for me a lot of money, I don't know how much, but it's - maybe $30,000 over the years, something like that. Not, well, that’s actually - more than that, because I paid for stuff, you know, like if we needed, paper or ink or something, and sometimes we had a cleaning lady come, and sometimes I would use the debit card and pay her the money and other times I just pay it out of my pocket, so I really don't know how much I gave. But what I've taken off taxes would probably amount to that much probably. So that's that.
Huttar: Where did the museum - where was it first housed?
Duncan: I can't tell you the street number, but it was on Trade St., which is the Main Street that goes from right out here [a street outside of the front right corner of the museum, probably East Poinsett St], you know, straight down [motions south, parallel to the Museum’s front], down to the railroad tracks and it was on the right side [perhaps it was 218 Trade Street, now Cartwright’s food hall]. And it was probably about the 4th building down on the right from- You go up here and you know that building that looks like that [narrow angled corner]. Now you probably don't, but –
Huttar: Was it the old Bailes-Collins building?
Duncan: It was. It was not the original Bai- but they got two more buildings because they kept expanding [gestures indicate three narrow buildings side by side], so it was - it was the Bai- the Collinses was - one of the Collins kids just wanted - leased it to the museum until either they sold it or re-leased. And then we move across the street, down one. So Miss Robinson owned that building from her family, or her husband's family, I can't remember. And it used to be a hardware store, and it was, um – We leased it. So we just moved across the street, down one. That was the second home. This is the third home. Does that answer your questions? [interviewer nods] Just if you go down through Greer and you pass, um - I don't even know the names of the stuff that’s there now. But anyway, it's not the first block - second block going towards the railroad, third building on the left, and then about the fourth building on the- first building’s [?]. No, the third building on the right and the fourth building on the left, going towards the railroad track in the middle of town. Parking was worse than it is here. [laughs] So. That was the first, second, and third home. And before the last city administrator left, the city kind of wanted this building back. You see, we signed a 25-year lease, and it started in ‘99. So… maybe it was a 30-year, I can't remember, but it's not quite out yet, but I'm just about - since it's going so well, and I think maybe their attitude had changed a little at City Hall because we got a new administrator. And he seemed to be interested at first, and now I think he’s so busy because the population of Greer’s now 42,000. Used to be 10 [thousand] for years, so. That's. They got – [laughs] they got their problems, but they’re handling it pretty well, so that's good.
Huttar: And how has the museum generally collected finances and stuff?
Duncan: The City of Greer would you use the tourist tax - what is that thing called? You know, the tax that you put on meals and stays in the hotels and all that. Um, there's a name for that. Excuse that, it’s my age. But there’s a name for that tax and they would do - they did do like 5000 a year - that helped. The rest - and I think since David’s here, we've had a few grants, but before that it was that money plus what we raised. And it was just purely donations. And we did a yearly thing to where you became a member of the museum, you know like a museum supporter. And we send out mailings and we got money from that, every year. And then we did a fundraiser sometime like a BBQ plate for like several dollars and the man that owns the BBQ place down highway 14. He said, “you can sell these tickets for like $5.00, but I'll do the half of it so it’d be actually be a ten dollar meal for five. And so we did a lot of stuff like that to raise money, but it's mostly supported, and that's what was getting scary, is people lost interest and the money started going – oh, and then the best thing was, Senator Lewis Fone, whose name is in there [points towards the main area of the building], another state senator after Senator Smith, he never had quite the notoriety and, you know, power that Senator Smith had. He managed to get a state grant and then a state appropriations. Different things. Because a grant is something that you apply for and you get and it's got strings attached, meaning that you got to use it for whatever supposed to be, but a appropriation, it's just money that you get, and do whatever you want to with it. So he did that, I don’t know how he pulled it off, but it added up to about $100,000. So we got a big $100,000 block of money and that's been it as far as a big government thing. And David has gotten some grants since then because he understands that, because that's what Bob Jones does a lot of. They’re writing gran - I'm sure they do it constantly. How much they get, I don't know, but I'm sure they do it, so. So that's why it’s been another boon. So that's - that was nice, - just been financed because Carm and Earl put some of their money and effort in, and in of course she’s persistent enough to suck money out of people whether they wanted it to or not [laughs]. So. No, she was just he was a strong personality and she just – well, it took somebody like that to do something that nobody else had thought of. So, anyway, she's to be commended for that, Joada is to be commended for working – and she told when I got - and I was frustrated and she said “now you know why I quit as early as I did, because I wasn't getting any help” and I said, “well I'm certainly not getting any.” So it was a struggle there for a while, but it seems to be on the right track now, thank goodness.
Huttar: And there's still a board of directors?
Duncan: I assume. There has to be, you know, legally. So they have to - and I need to ask, I need to have an interview with, David, say, you know, “how’s the board coming along and who's on it now, and how are you - how are they cooperating and how are you handling that, and that kind of stuff is questions-” Yeah, but I kind of stayed away. I found that that just works better, like when I retired from the state, you know, I just never went back to the office. I'm just, I just feel that way, just -presidents of the United States. You know, they don't just make a trip over to the White House. You know after they retire they do, unless that president calls the new president calls them. I don't know about now. Now's a different time that you're seeing, I can tell you. But in the past, going back to George Washington, once the president was out he set the precedent. I’m out you're in [hits table emphatically]. So I go that philosophy, you know if they wanted me, they would have put me in a position of advisor and the president has enough advisors now so. Anyway, that's my philosophy and I think it works. Because David needs his free rein. Go ahead ask any more questions, personal or not, doesn’t make any difference.
Huttar: Is there anything else you want to add to any of this stuff?
Duncan: No, only thing I would add is that even though I'm not involved, I still like the museum and I like what they're doing. And the last thing I say, I do - since I'm an only child and I've never married, which is I know, silly, but - and I regret it, but it’s just the way it's turned out - and therefore, no children. So, you know, when I die, my will has to do something, so they may benefit if I pass away. So that's, what else can I say, [laughs] it’s taken me from birth to death [laughs], which I hope is kind of further in the future [laughs], so hopefully they'll have to wait on it a while, so. It’s been a pleasure.
Huttar: Thank you so much.
Duncan: Hope you've been alright. Did I get you what you wanted or?
Huttar I just don't know why I didn't ask that - if there's anything else that you think of.
Duncan: No, you’ve pretty - if you wanted personal you have a lot of personal information, you know, birth till now with me, you know, education, upbringing, that sort of thing. All of which I remember. I can remember back, like I remember somebody's name - at least I can remember your name [laughs], for a while, but that's just part of aging you can remember things and so.
To me the ‘50s were heaven. I mean, I remember being a child with a good childhood, but to other people it would have not been that way. Some people, I'm sure - they from textile villages here, probably didn't have it that way - that good. They may have had a good childhood, but - then of course there's the black community that probably wasn't too happy during the ‘50s. We didn't know it, but I mean, we didn't, just - it was different than it is now, okay, we are aware of things now that we were not at that time, so. But for me it was fine, so. And it's just gradually, you know, what's happened the last - in the ‘60s. You know what went on. It wasn’t big here, but you know, in California, New York, 69, there was that big music thing that they did up there. You know, where all the pot smoking and the 100,000 hippies were piled in somewhere in New York. What is the name of that thing? Anyway. All that went on, and the 70s came and cars got crappy and gasoline prices went up all of a sudden, and the 80s and I've been through through all that, and different presidents and so. My earliest mem - I hate to tell you this because I’m really getting off on a tangent but I do barely remember Truman. And I remember, you know, hearing about him and even a little bit in the Weekly Reader, even though that was - I was young, there was stuff about our ex-president Harry Truman. And I remember Eisenhower very well. I remember the Kennedy and the Kennedy thing. I know exactly where I was standing when I heard he'd been assassinated – I could go to the what used to be the high school and I could stand within 5 feet of the spot that I was standing in. Any of these bad things- I don't whether you had one happened since you've been alive or not, I don’t know if you can where you can remember where you were standing when you heard it – My parents said that everybody they know remembers where they were when they had, when they got the news that Pearl Harbor had been attacked. That every everybody - not one soul doesn't remember exactly where they were standing or sitting or what house they were in or whatever. So. Anyway, that's, it's been a ride. That's a lot of things.
But we’re in a time, now, that's different. Economics are different. Politics are awful. Of course when Senator Smith I was telling you about when I would go down to Columbia - this is totally off the subject, but you need to know it. - When - ten years ago and back further, that's about right, if you had Democrats and Republicans, we've had that for a long, long time. You had Democrats here, and Republicans here, and you had the real outliers here, and you had kind of the center is here and they were like this [makes a Venn diagram with his hands; the Democrats and Republicans overlap a lot, but there are outliers that are far outside of the overlap]. This was a huge group of both parties that got along. And they would go and - and I saw this happen in the legislature. I was down there enough to - I wasn’t elected, but I was down there enough to see them - they would get up and argue, you know, in a gentlemanly fashion about this and this and they would be totally like opposite. And you said, “Oh my God,” - but that night, you would see the walk up the street and go to the city cafe and then they would have supper together, they would drink together, and they would sometimes- somebody would bring out the instrument, someone would play, and they would come down the street, best of friends. That, you know, you're Democrat, I’m Republican, who cares? But then when they got in there, they di- so that was- Congress was the same way. Well, now, I swear to you, one will be on this side of the street and one will be on this side of the street and they will not interact. That's terrible. And I don't know how we’re gonna solve that. It's gotten worse. So I'm sorry that you had your age - 19 or whatever you are - that you have to see politics like this because it has not always been this way. So anyway, right, left, right, left, red and blue - I think that the press started that or whatever, because we never heard of a red party, a blue party in my life till what, 10 years ago or whatever. [laughs] So anyway, I, I can't help it. I can't. All I can do is vote. So yeah, will do. I don't know that I've ever missed an election, so. And you can now. Cause, when I was your age, I couldn't. Because you had to be 21 to vote and - so I had to wait till I was 21. And I remember that very first voting. And so, it was interesting. And I voted ever since. Thank you again for your time. I hope I gave you what you wanted.
Huttar: Thank you for your time.
Duncan: You are most welcome.
Duration: 1 hour, 10 minutes in the audio recording

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David Duncan Oral History

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